Lidl (sp) Trombone [pre-owned]

Trombones - Used

  • Lidl (sp)

    Trombone [pre-owned]

    Early model Germanic trombone, most likely a Lidl made in Moravia (Czech Republic) possibly as early as 1850 (unlikely) and as late as 1940. It's also possible it is a Communist East German/East Bloc post-war build from the late 1940's to the 1970's (owing to the lack of makers marks). Our best guess places this horn as an unlabeled Lidl instrument produced in the interwar years. This unlacquered instrument is a straight, large bore model with a 9.5-inch (241 mm) bell. This model features no makers mark, no model number, no serial number, nor any other marking of any kind. There is no main tuning slide (all tuning is done the old-fashioned way, with the handslide). It does not have a bell garland, which is surprising given the other quality features on this instrument, yet it does feature a decorative filigree on the main tuning slide. There is only one bell brace, and oddly it has a nickel oversleeve, which serves no structural or practical purpose other than to match the aesthetic of the handslide's nickel oversleeve handles. The slide receiver section, a pressure fit design common in all trombones prior to World War II, is nickel in construction.

    The handslide is interesting. It is a wide design, with 3.25 inches (approx 83 mm) between the tubes. The inner slide tubes are brass, and the stockings are made of what appears to be nickle oversleeves. The outer slide is brass with nickel oversleeves on both handslide braces. The mouthpiece receiver and bell tenon are constructed of nickel. There is no slide lock. It has a somewhat modern looking spring-loaded water key. Like the bell, all ferrules are nickel, and it too features decorative filigree on the slide bow.

    It has an odd mouthpiece receiver somewhere between a modern medium/British/Euro, and a modern Bach/Morse/Remington large shank. Large shank mouthpieces don't fit, and Euro shank mouthpiece drop in but don't grab. It comes with a mouthpiece that fits, but it is not a trombone model. The cup diameter and rim is close to that of a french horn, with the depth of a trumpet. It is quite possibly an old mellophone or Wagner Tuba mouthpiece. The only thing "correct" about it is the shank, which seems to fit well enough, with a slight wobble, so still perhaps not perfect.

    As to condition, for an old raw brass instrument it is in very good shape, with only a few dents and dings. It's been taken care of. There is no visible rot or verdigris. The slide is smooth but heavy and slow in movement as you might expect from an old model. There is only the slight odor of raw brass. A case is not included.

    Until we know otherwise, the horn will be priced high. Photos will follow. If you have questions or observations about this instrument or model, please feel free to let us know.

    • Category: Trombones - Used
    • Item: 005493
    • Grade/Level:
    • Our Price: $2500.00  MSRP: $5000.00 Save: $2500.00 (50%)

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Woodwind Instrumentation Codes

Following many of the titles in our Wind Ensemble catalog, you will see a set of numbers enclosed in square brackets, as in this example:

Description Price
Rimsky-Korsakov
Quintet in Bb [1011-1 w/piano]
Item: 26746		 $28.75

The bracketed numbers tell you the precise instrumentation of the ensemble. The first number stands for Flute, the second for Oboe, the third for Clarinet, the fourth for Bassoon, and the fifth (separated from the woodwinds by a dash) is for Horn. Any additional instruments (Piano in this example) are indicated by "w/" (meaning "with") or by using a plus sign.

Flute   Oboe   Clarinet   Bassoon   —   Horn

This woodwind quartet is for 1 Flute, no Oboe, 1 Clarinet, 1 Bassoon, 1 Horn and Piano.

Sometimes there are instruments in the ensemble other than those shown above. These are linked to their respective principal instruments with either a "d" if the same player doubles the instrument, or a "+" if an extra player is required. Whenever this occurs, we will separate the first four digits with commas for clarity. Thus a double reed quartet of 2 oboes, english horn and bassoon will look like this:

0,2+1,0,1-0

Note the "2+1" portion means "2 oboes plus english horn"

Titles with no bracketed numbers are assumed to use "Standard Instrumentation." The following is considered to be Standard Instrumentation:

Brass Instrumentation Codes

Following many of the titles in our Brass Ensemble catalog, you will see a set of five numbers enclosed in square brackets, as in this example:

Description Price
Copland
Fanfare for the Common Man [343.01 w/tympani]
Item: 02158		 $14.95

The bracketed numbers tell you how many of each instrument are in the ensemble. The first number stands for Trumpet, the second for Horn, the third for Trombone, the fourth (separated from the first three by a dot) for Euphonium and the fifth for Tuba. Any additional instruments (Tympani in this example) are indicated by a "w/" (meaning "with") or by using a plus sign.

Trumpet     Horn     Trombone   .   Euphonium     Tuba

Thus, the Copland Fanfare shown above is for 3 Trumpets, 4 Horns, 3 Trombones, no Euphonium, 1 Tuba and Tympani. There is no separate number for Bass Trombone, but it can generally be assumed that if there are multiple Trombone parts, the lowest part can/should be performed on Bass Trombone.

Titles listed in our catalog without bracketed numbers are assumed to use "Standard Instrumentation." The following is considered to be Standard Instrumentation:

People often ask us about "PJBE" or "Philip Jones" instrumentation. This is a special instrumentation adopted and perfected by the Philip Jones Brass Ensemble. It consists of the forces 414.01, and often includes Percussion and/or Tympani. In addition, there are often doublings in the Trumpet section - Piccolo and Flugelhorn being the most common. While this instrumentation has come to be common, it is still not "Standard" as many Brass Dectets use very different forces, most often with more Horns than PJBE.

String Instrumentation Codes

Following many of the titles in our String Ensemble catalog, you will see a set of four numbers enclosed in square brackets, as in this example:

Description Price
Atwell
Vance's Dance [0220]
Item: 32599		 $8.95

These numbers tell you how many of each instrument are in the ensemble. The first number stands for Violin, the second for Viola, the third for Cello, and the fourth for Double Bass. Thus, this string quartet is for 2 Violas and 2 Cellos, rather than the usual 2110. Titles with no bracketed numbers are assumed to use "Standard Instrumentation." The following is considered to be Standard Instrumentation:

Orchestra & Band Instrumentation Codes

Following some titles in our Orchestra & Band catalogs, you will see a numeric code enclosed in square brackets, as in these examples:

  Order Qty Description Price
Beethoven
Symphony No 1 in C, op 21
[2,2,2,2-2,2,0,0, tymp, 44322] 		$150.00
Jones
Wind Band Overture
[2+1,1,3+ac+bc,2,SATB-2+2,4,3+1,1, tymp, percussion, double bass] 		$85.00
MacKenzie
Hines Pond Fantasy (DePaolo)
[2d1+1,1,2+1,1-2,2(+2),3,0, perc, tymp, 44322, Eb clarinet, SAATB saxes, trombone solo] 		$75.00

The bracketed numbers tell you the precise instrumentation of the ensemble. The system used above is standard in the orchestra music field. The first set of numbers (before the dash) represent the Woodwinds. The set of numbers after the dash represent the Brass. Percussion is abbreviated following the brass. Strings are represented with a series of five digits representing the quantity of each part (first violin, second violin, viola, cello, bass). Other Required and Solo parts follow the strings:

Woodwinds—Brass,   Percussion,   Strings,   Other

Principal auxilary instruments (piccolo, english horn, bass clarinet, contrabassoon, wagner tuba, cornet & euphonium) are linked to their respective instruments with either a "d" if the same player doubles the auxiliary instrument, or a "+" if an extra player is required. Instruments shown in parenthesis are optional and may be omitted.

Example 1 - Beethoven:

[2,2,2,2-2,2,0,0, tymp, 44322]

The Beethoven example is typical of much Classical and early Romantic fare. In this case, the winds are all doubled (2 flutes, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets and 2 bassoons), and there are two each horns and trumpets. There is no low brass. There is tympani. Strings are a standard 44322 configuration (4 first violin, 4 second violin, 3 viola, 2 cello, 2 bass). Sometimes strings are simply listed as "str," which means 44322 strings.

Example 2 - Jones: (concert band/wind ensemble example)

[2+1,1,3+ac+bc,2,SAATB-2+2,4,3+1,1, tymp, percussion, double bass]

The second example is common for a concert band or wind ensemble piece. This ficticious work is for 2 flutes (plus piccolo), 1 oboe, 3 clarinets plus alto and bass clarinets, 2 bassoons, 5 saxes (soprano, 2 altos, tenor & bari), 2 trumpets (plus 2 cornets), 3 trombones, euphonium, tuba, tympani, percussion and double bass. Note the inclusion of the saxes after bassoon for this band work. Note also that the separate euphonium part is attached to trombone with a plus sign. For orchestral music, saxes are at the end (see Saxophones below. It is highly typical of band sets to have multiple copies of parts, especially flute, clarinet, sax, trumpet, trombone & percussion. Multiples, if any, are not shown in this system. The numbers represent only distinct parts, not the number of copies of a part.

Example 3 - MacKenzie: (a fictional work, by the way).

[2d1+1,1,2+1,1-2,2(+2),3,0, perc, tymp, 66432, Eb clarinet, SAATB saxes, trombone solo]

In the third example, we have a rather extreme use of the system. It is an orchestral work for piccolo, 2 flutes (1 of whom doubles on piccolo), 1 oboe, 2 clarinets plus an additional bass clarinet, 1 bassoon, 2 horns, 2 trumpets (plus an optional 2 cornets), 3 trombones, no tuba, percussion, tympani, 6 first violins, 6 second violins, 4 violas, 3 cellos, 2 double basses, Eb clarinet (as an additional chair, not doubled), 5 saxes (soprano, 2 alto, tenor & baritone) & a trombone soloist.

Note: This system lists Horn before Trumpet. This is standard orchestral nomenclature. Unless otherwise noted, we will use this system for both orchestra and band works (in most band scores, Trumpet precedes Horn, and sometimes Oboe & Bassoon follow Clarinet). Also, it should be noted that Euphonium can be doubled by either Trombone or Tuba. Typically, orchestra scores have the tuba linked to euphonium, but it does happen where Trombone is the principal instead.

Saxophones, when included in orchestral music (they rarely are) will be shown in the "other instrument" location after strings and before the soloist, if any. However for band music, they are commonly present and therefore will be indicated after bassoon as something similar to "SAATB" where S=soprano, A=alto, T=tenor and B=baritone. Letters that are duplicated (as in A in this example) indicate multiple parts.

And finally, here is one more way to visualize the above code sequence: